***** UNAPPROVED
MINUTES *****
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
The
meeting was
called to order at
Gary Girard Andrew Kallfelz
Betty Hubbard Victor Calabretta
Jean Macgregor Brown William Kelly
Barry Holland
Also present:
Lisa Bryer, AICP – Town Planner
Cinthia Reppe – Recording Clerk
Richard Pastore – Town Engineering
Consultant
John Murphy – Attorney
Joseph Manning
Peter Brockmann
Anthony Demedeiros
Lorana Demedeiros
Charlotte Zarlengo
Sav Rebecchi
I.
Approval of Minutes from
A
motion was made by Commissioner Kallfelz and seconded by Commissioner Brown to
approve the minutes as amended. On Page 3 under Richard Pastore amend the last
sentence strike more water and add
after ultimately you will have increased
volume. So unanimously voted. Commissioner Girard abstains.
II. Correspondence
1. CRMC – Assent – Stephen
& Linda Mecca,
III. Citizen’s Non Agenda Item
Sav Rebecchi
president of the Jamestown Shores Association stated that a lot on the corner
of Spirketing and Beacon has been bringing in fill and leveling out the property
creating a lot of disturbance to the site, he asked why this has been
allowed. Town Planner Lisa Bryer stated
she will ask Fred Brown the building inspector about this lot since she has no
prior knowledge of this. Charlotte
Zarlengo who is a steward for the Land Trust stated that all the water from the run
off due to this lot being filled is flooding Ferry St.
IV. Reports
1. Town Planner’s Report
Town
Planner Lisa Bryer told the Planning Commission that the Zoning workshop is
next Tuesday May
11. This will be a training session to
discuss high groundwater ordinance, this is a workshop and there will not be
any public input. Mr. Pastore stated
that if the commissioners have any thoughts on this they need to be there to
convey this to the Zoning Board members.
Also if there are things that Mr. Pastore should emphasize, get in touch with
him via e-mail. Commissioner Calabretta
will present the presentation from last weeks meeting where he presented a
house designed on piers. Commissioner
Girard stated again that this meeting is not a public workshop that it is
intended to be educational to various board members
2. Town Committees
a.
Harbor
– nothing at this time
b.
Commissioner
Hubbard stated there is so much material that needs to be covered they didn’t
have a chance to cover it all and now they are identifying historical sites out
there. There will be a public workshop
meeting June 10th possibly during the day. Commissioner Hubbard stated that the first 10 minutes
of every meeting will be devoted to public input. Commissioner Hubbard would like comments from
the planning commissioners on what they for see for
c.
Buildings
and Facilities – nothing at this time
d.
Others
3. Sub Committees
V. Old
Business
1.
Manning
9
Attorney
John Murphy stated at the conclusion of the last meeting the comments from
abutters were to request a hydro geologic study. Andrew Johnston engineer from Northeast
Engineers & Consultants has prepared a scope of work for the hydrogeologic study, different from the previous scope of
work from GZA. Commissioner Girard
asked the planning commissioners to look at the scope of work outlined to see
if this is what they want. Lisa Bryer,
town planner just received this yesterday and met with Andrew Johnston
briefly. Having the study done prior to
Master Plan approval is what the Town solicitor Larry Parks has suggested. Lisa Bryer will be in contact with
professionals to conduct this study. The
commissioners can talk about the scope of study tonight and have the consultant
look it over to make sure its OK. Commissioner Calabretta has a problem with
making a recommendation based on information provided from the applicant at the
meeting. Commissioner Girard stated that the commission can discuss whats in
front of them tonight or put it off until next meeting. Commissioner Kelly made a motion to table
until next meeting Commissioner Calabretta seconded. Commissioner Hubbard asked if the applicant
has the scope of work from last time.
Commissioner Kallfelz wanted to talk about it now. Commissioner Brown asked how long will it take to go through this. Commissioner Holland agrees with the
motion. The applicant understands they
have to do this study. The Planning
Commission should be prepared to discuss the scope of work from GZA at the next
meeting and compare the 2 proposals to see if they are the same. Commissioner Brown asked if there were any
precedent for this type of data? The town should talk to a hydro geologist to
look at everything involved to put a scope of work together. Mr. Murphy suggested that his firm is working
for Mr. Manning. Town Planner Lisa Bryer
stated that when this was discussed before, the applicant would hire a hydro
geologist and then the town hires someone to review it. It would be more economical for the applicant
if they agree on a consultant and work together. The burden of meeting these issues falls on
the applicant Commissioner Calabretta stated.
It would be easier for all to approach this in a unified way. Commissioner Calabretta is comfortable with
Mr. Pastore working on this with Lisa.
If they feel they need an expert then hire them. Mr. Pastore said they need a specialist. If you want it separate then fine, but an
expert is needed. Commissioner Kallfelz
suggested that they withdraw the motion or amend it for Mr. Pastore and Lisa
Bryer to get an expert. The motion was
withdrawn.
Commissioner
Kallfelz made a motion to have Lisa Bryer and Richard Pastore find an expert to
conduct the study and the applicant help to design the scope of work. Commissioner Holland asked if this would be
on the next meeting agenda or would it take a couple of months? Town Planner Lisa Bryer stated it would be
discussed at the first available meeting.
So unanimously voted.
Mr.
John Dudley –
2.
Demedeiros
–
Commissioner
Girard stated that this has been continued from the last meeting. Peter J Brockmann represents the applicants
Anthony and Lorana Demedeiros. He gave a
short synopsis. They came back on April
7 with a scaled down version since the 3/17 meeting. Some Commissioners suggested a swale be done
which they did and this is where they stand.
It was clarified by the Commission that at the April 21st
meeting the applicant asked that this be continued until tonight. Commissioner Calabretta,
stated that it was not a formal request of the commission which prompted a
concern of his and that is not why he made the presentation. In addition, the commission was concerned
with the drainage being channelized from the
significant amount of fill added to the site and that they asked the applicant
to handle the drainage issues related to this.
They did not specifically ask for a swale. Commissioner Calabretta stated that a swale
is counter to what they want to do with the surface water. The sketches that Commissioner Calabretta
presented had some great concepts that they could apply to the site and
possibly get the house that they wanted, without significant fill and impact to
the site and the surrounding neighborhood.
Peter Brockmann stated the problem the
applicant is faced with, is that they are so far into the process and have gone
through all this with DEM
they can’t just start it over again. There will always be a project that will
result in less disturbance. Commissioner Calabretta
asked,” Does DEM approve entire site plan or just the ISDS?” Nick Pompiano the
engineer on this application stated that it came up in discussion this is why
it is elevated it was looked at all together.
Surface water flow is a comment that DEM looks at. He has provided
swales. Was 4 feet of fill required
around the foundation asked Commissioner Calabretta. Mr. Pompiano replied that it is a requirement
to the east and south. Mr. Pastore
stated that is correct. Mr. Pastore
stepped up to the table with the planning commissioners and showed the
commissioners what the engineer has designed.
Engineer shows topography from wetland area. Relatively flat. Commissioner Kelly said he
was at the site today and was up to his knees in water just behind the
site. Mr. Pompiano
and Mr. Brockmann were both out there and the site was dry on the site. Commissioner Calabretta stated that it has
been established that you can do with just minimal fill around the house, take
the house they saw last time and tell him why they can’t build this house
without the fill. Mr. Pompiano has
stated before fill is needed around the ISDS.
Commissioner Calabretta stated that if you took that house and put the
piers down then you will not need that amount of fill. Mr. Pompiano stated that you need it on the
back side. Commissioner Calabretta,
asked if you put 12 inches of stone under the slab in the basement can’t that
be runoff area or storage? Commissioner
Calabretta apologizes for being pushy, but this is the first application under
review, they worked hard to get this ordinance, they don’t want to be anti
development in the shores and deny people the right to build, he has suggested
methods for applicants to get exactly what they want with minimal site
disturbance. Commissioner Calabretta
stated that he could not support this application in good conscience because
this is not the least disturbance to the site.
Commissioner Kallfelz stated that the original
house could be done on piers with less disturbance to
the lot. A discussion ensued regarding
the sheet flow and if it will get there faster with the swale, technically yes
it will. Mr. Pompiano stated that not
visibly. This is exactly opposite of
what a level spreader does. Peter
Brockmann stated that the applicant is at the end of the line as far as the runoff,
they are the guy that needs protection. Members of the audience disputed
that. The planning commission is
obligated to act on the application before them if the applicant is not
suggesting that they will make changes.
Commissioner Hubbard made a motion that was seconded by Commissioner
Girard to deny application on grounds that it does not meet section 82-308.
C.1.b and d as follows:
1)
The
design fails to result in the least grading, filling or other disturbance(41/2’ fill etc.)
2)
The
design creates a subsurface structure that will pose a threat to the public
health and safety(“dam” effect of solid foundation and result on groundwater
flow)
3)
The
design and siting of the dwelling and ISDS does not represent the least
disturbance as possible to the site (garage, storage basement plan with more
than 600 sq. ft. imprint and living area greater than 800 sq. ft.)
4)
The
design provides insufficient storm water runoff control measures to protect
nearby properties from adverse impacts (swale on north side merely channels
water to street which may cause “puddling” for neighbor to north and/or flow
across the street to flood neighbor to west)
Commissioner
Brown said since we do not have a packet to give to them for guidance,
this is a learning curve for all involved.
We should help applicants to meet this ordinance. Lisa Bryer Town Planner replied that this it
is not your job to re design this application.
It is the applicants job to re design and find
ways to best meet the ordinance. She
cautioned the Planning Commission to give so much guidance. Commissioner Brown
asked “ Are we not in a concrete manner defining
minimum disturbance? Is this still verbiage that we are all interpreting in our
own way.”
Commissioner Girard stated, they are making a recommendation to the
zoning board, they will address it and make the final
decision. Commissioner Calabretta stated
that the planning commission worked very hard on this ordinance at the
direction of the town council and he as well as the other planning
commissioners would like to see this work with some innovative ideas being
presented to them. Since Commissioner
Calabretta is the most qualified on the planning commission with porous
foundation can a house be built with porous foundation or will DEM reject
it? Mr. Pompiano stated it will be more
costly for the foundation. Mr.
Demedeiros stated that he had been dealing with DEM over the last few years
back and forth and that he feels the Planning Commission is brainstorming at
his expense and this is not fair. He
submitted three separate designs submitted to DEM. The engineers are all qualified to make
decisions. They have taken all steps to
comply with state regulations and that should be good enough for the Town. He said he will sell the lot,
the requests being made of them are unfair.
The Commission stated that this ordinance was drafted because DEM was
not looking at applications cumulatively and not addressing stormwater
runoff. Commissioner Kallfelz
feels the motion is premature.
Commissioner Hubbard withdraws the motion.
Charlotte
Zarlengo – chair of groundwater for the shores – swale goes down and carries
water down to
Leo
Erera – Take a walk down Seaside Dr. it comes down in 2 streams.
David
Gorelik – His concern with keeping the water from directly coming into his
house the way they are designing it, it will absorb this is marsh land. This is not a build able area.
Anthony
Demedeiros – DEM says it is.
David
Gorelik – DEM doesn’t have our best interests in mind. Maybe piers would not be better,
they could be sitting on Marsh.
Mrs.
Greenburg – Planning Commission has a difficult job they are all trying in
order to follow the ordinance don’t make exceptions, Mr. Calabretta was trying
to help. She does know that swale will
create water along the streets.
Phil
Zarlengo – worked with the shores and with planning commission, walk along
Seaside Dr. there are lower points that will be
flooded.
Commissioner
Girard – pointed out that sub-district A is the most difficult to
develop. Without modern technology this
area would never be able to be developed.
Anthony
– We are all concerned about the environment
Sav
Rebecchi– Shores Association president, when houses are built they join the
association to stop development. This
still gives us the best chance to insure safety.
Lorana Demedeiros –
DEM was a nightmare she feels they are the guinea pigs,
they have a much larger lot. Made
applications to build with DEM before the ordinance was passed, their building
application was made after.
Commissioner Girard – reason it was asked of the Planning Commission to come up with this is because DEM was not strict enough.
Anthony
Demedeiros –gave a history of the lot he purchased. He is frustrated with the whole process.
Commissioner
Hubbard made a motion that was seconded by Commissioner Girard to deny this
application because there has been no change to the plan.
Commissioner
Kelly stated that the applicant has heard various commissioners with suggested
ideas, what was suggested is minimal disturbance, a reduction in fill and to
his knowledge a reduction in price not having to build a foundation all around
the house.
Anthony
Demedeiros -If they come back with design of a porous foundation will the board
approve or consider it.
The
Planning Commission cannot approve anything that is not before them.
Commissioner
Brown - what I
am hearing here is, there are solutions to building in sub-district A but we don’t know what they are and we
won’t share them.
Commissioner
Calabretta – Disagrees with Commissioner Brown, either the architect or the engineer
should come up with an alternative, innovative plan.
Commissioner
Kallfelz – this is the Planning Commissions recommendation to the zoning board.
Commissioner
Hubbard – she was taught and practiced that water runs down
Commissioner
Girard asked the Planning Commissioners if they are willing to continue past
After
continued discussion regarding the proposed motion with suggestions being made
by Commissioner Holland and other Commissioners, Commissioner Hubbard changed
the motion to read as follows:
This
application will be denied on the grounds that it does not meet section 82-308.
C.1.b and d as follows:
1)
The
design fails to result in the least grading, filling or other disturbance(41/2’ fill etc.)
2)
The
design, scale and siting of the dwelling and ISDS
does not represent the least disturbance as possible to the site (garage and
storage basement plan)
3)
The
proposal may create adverse impacts (swale on north side merely channels water to
street which may cause “puddling” for neighbor to
north and/or flow across the street to flood neighbor to west)
Commissioner
Girard recused himself for this next issue and left the table.
VI. New Business
Mary
Meagher presented a new set of plans that show the changes they would
like. The use of the restaurant and a
variety of different things has prompted these changes. They would like to
provide more open air seating. The commissioners
have the previous proposal and the current one too. Commissioner Hubbard asked if this changes
the total seating. No the room that was
built is actually shorter and they have less seating than originally
proposed. They can seat 61, they are not increasing that amount. The applicant was asked if the cistern is built? They have rain barrels collecting 200 gallons
now. The cistern was part of the
original approval. It needs to be done. The cistern was a best effort, the rain
barrels are collecting, and it is adequate.
Commissioner Kallfelz asked where the current roof run
off goes. To the back stated the
applicant, it runs in to the rain barrels.
No complaints as far as run off so far.
Will the seating change as far as numbers go? No. Commissioner Kelly
wants to know if 61 seats includes inside and outside how many in and how many
out? Interior can be more crowded in the
winter. There are 30 outside, 30 inside.
What is the fire code number?
What is the timing? They would
like to complete this before July 4th.
Commissioner Kallfelz asked about lighting. Outside low wattage lights will be used, and
a couple to highlight the menu board, very minimal. A motion was made by
Commissioner Hubbard and seconded by Commissioner Kelly to approve the
development plan with the following condition:
Add
another 80 gallon capacity in the form of a rain barrel on top of the 200
gallon capacity that is now in place for the storm water run off and where
possible create an impervious surface under the proposed deck. So voted:
Andrew
Kallfelz – Aye Victor
Calabretta – Aye
Betty
Hubbard – Aye Jean
MacGregor Brown – Aye
William
Kelly – Aye Barry
Holland – Aye
Motion
passes by a vote of 6-0
A motion to adjourn was made by Commissioner
Kallfelz at
Attest:
Cinthia
Reppe This meeting was recorded on 1 micro-cassette